Pat Miletich accomplished everything a professional fighter could want from a career in mixed martial arts. After the respected former Ultimate Fighting Championship welterweight titleholder stopped competing on a full-time basis in 2002, he remained a fixture in the sport as a world-class trainer of champions and a busy broadcast analyst. On Jan. 6, Miletich joined thousands of like-minded Americans at the “Stop the Steal” rally in Washington D.C. The 55-year-old retired fighter maintains he was not among the group of rioters who stormed the United States Capitol, yet two months later the impact of his presence on the grounds lingers after photos emerged of him mingling with members of far-right extremist groups. Miletich said during the first week of March he was contacted by FBI agents who were interested in his recollection of an infamous day that soon cost the Iowan his color commentary duties with the Legacy Fighting Alliance.
In Part 1 of an expansive interview that covered the events of Jan. 6, Miletich discussed the reaction he received and why he views the world the way he does.
Gross: We’re approaching two months since Jan. 6. What’s going on in your life at this particular moment?
Miletich: Right now, I’m remodeling a home. I’ve already got offers from people to buy it before I’m even done with it, so I’m working on that. I’m selling the hell out of Black Oxygen, which is a supplement company that I got involved with, so that’s going well. And I’ve got offers to do broadcasting with different groups, one of which is on UFC Fight Pass. The others are pay-per-views. One of them is Caged Aggression, which is a local Iowa show here. They do a great job. When Anthem bought out AXS-TV, everyone lost their job all at once over there, so I decided to ask some of my buddies here in the Quad Cities who have had experience in TV if we could pull off an internet pay-per-view just to see if we could do it. Within 17 days we got it done, right? I thought it was worth continuing, and we’ve actually been selling a good number of pay-per-views on those local shows worldwide. We’re doing the next ones on March 25, 26 and 27. Mike Goodwin from Caged Aggression is doing a triple night of fights, and so we’ll have internet pay-per-view packages for that one. And then, of course, Ken Shamrock’s bare knuckle [show] is starting up again this year. And then the XFC also. The Black Oxygen is great, and I enjoy helping people with that.
Gross: There was confusion about LFA. You were never actually fired from LFA, correct?
Miletich: Basically, they were just going to part ways. I think what they wanted to see is if things would die down, calm down, and I honestly didn’t want them stressing about it. I love [LFA CEO] Ed [Soares], Sven [Bean] and Mark [Bieri] and have known them for many, many years. I didn’t want them to deal with any of the stress. In the end, I said, “Look guys, it’s not that big a deal. I got a lot of other stuff going on. You go ahead and move on, and I’ll do my thing.”
Gross: Even though you posted on social media that you were fired, that was not true. You took that post down right?
Miletich: I was asked to. More than anything it was, “Hey, we need to distance ourselves from this whole situation.” When your employer says that to you, you just take it as, “Yeah, I’m being let go.”
Gross: Is there any potential for you to go back to LFA? Is that something you’re interested in?
Miletich: I love those guys and would do anything they ask. Right now, I’m focused on other things, and they’re doing fine.
Gross: So you’re very much in the mix in the MMA game. There were questions about your status, whether you were going to be ostracized or what role you had in the sport. None of that’s come to fruition? You’re still making the most of it, or do you feel you have had to pay a price for your attendance on Jan. 6?
Miletich: Of course, for a while there I paid a price. There’s always going to be people who believe what they read. Nothing could be done about that, right? After being involved in the sport since, I don’t know, ’95, ’96, some millennial who calls himself some sort of reporter ran some slanderous bulls--- article and posted it on the internet. After 30 years of being involved in the sport, suddenly, God, someone finally found out that I was a racist or something. It’s miraculous. Just a genius. Like I said, I had to forgive the guy. I’m not going to be mad about it. I don’t have the time to be mad at people, especially someone who does something that stupid. It is what it is.
Gross: Is the article you’re referring to the one that was written by Mike Jackson? He’s a fighter that you cornered.
Miletich: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Gross: You obviously drew criticism. Do you feel any of that is warranted, or is the perspective of people who wonder why you were at the Capitol on Jan. 6 not something that should be discussed? How do you think people should view your appearance there on a day that’s pretty infamous?
Miletich: Well, look, the last time I checked, this was the United States of America and people are still free to assemble. Right? Me going to Washington D.C. because I knew it would be something that’s historic no matter what happened, I wanted to take part of the process of what was going on in my nation. People are so sensitive and overly sensitive their feelings get hurt by anybody with a different viewpoint. And my viewpoint is this: I’m going to do what I can to make sure my children enjoy the same freedoms I did. Right now, if things continue the way they are, that’s not going to be the case for any of us. So that’s my viewpoint, and I don’t particularly care who the president is. I don’t care who’s in Congress. Or the Senate. All I care about is that they don’t s--- on the Constitution like they’ve been doing for, well, decades.
Gross: Do you feel like for public figures such as yourself—you’re a former UFC champion people in the space know well and some people outside the space know well—that there is no room for free expression? Do you feel like you have ever stepped over a line?
Miletich: In no way, shape or form. I mean, look, again, the First Amendment gives us the right to speak our mind. And, of course, people are more than free to express themselves in how they feel about me doing that. But overstepping a line? How could I possibly overstep a line when it comes to my children’s future. The revolution happened over a five-percent tax. We’ve gone so far past that. I’m not calling for a violent revolution. I’m just calling people what they are, whether they are on the left or the right, and understand that without a doubt the citizens being divided is on purpose. People have to be able to see through what the media is trying to do. It is the machine that tries to drive hatred and a wedge between the American people. That’s the only purpose that the media serves right now.
Gross: What do you make of the coverage of Jan. 6? You were there. What you saw with your own eyes, you saw with your own eyes. Obviously, you couldn’t see everything. It’s a big building, a big complex. You couldn’t know what was happening if you didn’t see it firsthand, I suppose. Based on what you saw firsthand and what you saw through video—I imagine you paid some time seeing what was out of your view—what was that day like? What does that day represent to you? The way that everything happened, do you feel like it represented your interests? Are you in common cause with the people who stormed the Capitol?
Miletich: That’s a loaded question, Josh. You shouldn’t ask the question in that way. I have no idea where you would drum up framing a question that way. That’s, in my mind, ridiculous. My leanings towards anyone that was in the Capitol—that’s why I stayed down on the street the whole time when everything was going on. We didn’t even know anyone was going into the Capitol, right? From where we were, the front of the Capitol and the front lawn is so big and so vast that we couldn’t see any details at all. We certainly couldn’t see back to where the doors were at the top of the Rotunda that circles the Capitol. It just looked like a lot of people were standing up there and the stairs and all over the lawn. We didn’t know people were going in the Capitol. On top of that, there were several people photographed inside of the Capitol who were absolutely were part of Antifa. I’ve seen photos of them at Antifa rallies. I also know that [John] Sullivan received $35,000 from CNN and $35,000 from [NBC] for the footage he shot inside. He was accompanied by a CNN reporter who was also filming for the same time. Some people were undoubtedly Trump supporters inside the Capitol, but I can tell you that there were plenty of people who were not. We know going into this that Antifa was going to be infiltrating and throwing on Trump shirts and trying to cause trouble. Two of them walked through the Trump crowd earlier in the day with backpacks, black hoodies and baseball bats hanging out. They’re walking through a million Trump supporters, and everybody in the Trump crowd was basically saying, “Hey, where’s the baseball game at today? Hey, what team do you play for?” Because everyone was smart enough to at least figure that out. Would I put on a Trump hat and walk through an Antifa rally in downtown Seattle? How’d that work for me? Right? See what I’m saying?
Gross: I don’t know if you heard testimony on Capitol Hill yesterday (March 2) from the FBI Director [Christopher Wray], who, again, is one of many people saying there’s no evidence whatsoever of Antifa, no evidence whatsoever of the actors that have been alleged. When you hear that, how do you take that in?
Miletich: I think it’s pathetic. I think he’s flat-out lying. Look, there’s a lot of good people in the FBI. I spoke to a couple of them yesterday. They called me up and said, “Hey, our superiors are making us go back and check through. We knew you were there. We knew you didn’t do anything wrong, but we want to know what you saw.” Here’s what I told them: I said, “Everything that I saw from my vantage point, looking up the hill was when the police officers opened the barricades and waved the crowd up the hill.” I’d never see anything like that. I looked at my friends. Instantly, it did not pass the smell test. We knew something was up. As the crowd poured up the hill, the police officers spread all across the hill. There are acres and acres of grass laying up towards the Capitol. As this crowd poured up the hill, once the crowd got to a certain point up the hill getting closer to the stairs of the Capitol, from the left in slid a bunch of guys in riot gear and instantly started hitting the crowd with stun grenades, tear gas, rubber bullets and OC spray. We could hear the explosions. We could see the tear gas. And all of that from where we were. So basically, what I told the FBI agents was this, I said that would be like me—this was so obvious—to me it would be like you coming to my door, me inviting you for coffee, me opening my door, letting you walk past me and then punching you on the side of the head while you’re walking by. That’s how the crowd got inside. This was an absolute, 100-percent setup for optics. It was just too obvious, Josh. And I’ve seen footage from the other side because they were doing the exact same thing at the same time on the other side of the building. So for people to think this wasn’t set up and planned, they’re completely crazy.
Gross: Some people are going to read this and think you’re crazy. How do you reconcile that?
Miletich: OK, OK, OK, let me explain something if anyone reads this and thinks I’m crazy after I’ve spent over 25 years training law enforcement, the tactics of law enforcement and training high-level military. I actually know what the f--- I’m talking about. The police opened barricades and waved a crowd up toward the building. OK? I’m not crazy. There’s footage out there. It exists. People can look it up themselves. If people think I’m crazy, it’s because they’re completely disconnected from reality. Because on top of that, there are millions of people out there, Josh, who think our government actually gives a s--- about us and don’t think the government and the media is trying to divide us while they do everything they’ve been doing. Case in point: Tens of millions of people have been put in abject poverty by lockdowns—completely unconstitutional lockdowns—but yet the government tells you it’s for your own good and safety. Meanwhile, people are losing houses. A hundred thousand businesses at the very least have gone under. Millions of people are going to be filing for bankruptcy. Millions are going to lose their houses. And if you think your government cares about you while allowing this to happen to millions of families, I don’t know what you’re smoking. But people can think I’m crazy because they’re devoid of any common sense. That’s all I can say.
Gross: How did you end up in D.C. on Jan. 6? What was it that drew you there?
Miletich: You know what, it was a friend of mine who said, “Hey man I think we should be there, be there to check it out, be present at something that’s historic and just be part of the process. Be there. Observe what happens. Just be part of it.” Look, I’ve got to tell you. The whole thing was a “Love Fest.” People of all backgrounds, all religions. There was a massive amount of Chinese folks there who oppose Chinese communism. There was a lot of black Americans, a lot of Latinos, and not a single, not a single… There wasn’t any… It was really like a Love Fest. It was like the 1960s. Everybody had good feelings. Everybody was hanging out talking and having a good time taking pictures with each other. That’s all it was until the crowd got let through the barricades, and then they started getting hit with stun grenades and tear gas.
Gross: There was nothing in between then that would have changed or influenced the crowd’s mood? You were there. You heard the speeches that day. Were they riling people up?
Miletich: No. There was no speech that I heard by anybody saying, “Let’s go fight.” When you’ve got [Speaker of the House Nancy] Pelosi and numerous other Democrats going, “If you see these politicians in restaurants or gas stations or grocery stores, get in their face. (Note: Pelosi condemned these remarks, which originated with California Democrat Maxine Waters.) Confront them. This or that.” And meanwhile, you’ve got guys like Rand Paul and his wife coming back from dinner being shoved around by a bunch of Antifa, and the cops are trying to guard them. That’s the kind of s--- that’s been going on for a long time. Cities have been burned but yet a million supposed Trump supporters are in D.C. If you think for a minute that the intention was to take over the Capitol, you’re crazy. If a million people wanted to, the thing would have been burned to the ground. I mean, let’s be honest. We’ve got to use our heads here. The intention was not to take over the Capitol and the FBI director saying there isn’t any record of Antifa being involved in the building—there’s pictures of them inside the building, OK?
Gross: In some of the criminal filings of people who have been indicted and arrested, it has been shown that they dressed like Antifa. People were there supporting Trump, but they dressed like Antifa. Is it possible that that’s the disconnect or confusion?
Miletich: Did you say that Antifa said they were there to support Trump?
Gross: No. They were Trump supporters who talked about dressing like Antifa. It’s in the criminal filings.
Miletich: You know what, anyone dumb enough to do that… that has got to be complete bulls---. Here’s the thing that people have to understand: When you look at Black Lives Matter, the vast majority of Black Lives Matter people, they just want change. They don’t want black kids getting shot anymore, right? They don’t want unarmed black men being murdered. And they should absolutely fight for that. But what people don’t understand, numerous people that I talked to—because on my podcast, Josh, “The Conspiracy Farm,” we talk to people who are on the ground—in Wisconsin when all of that went down, they watched the buses come in after dark and all the violence starts. The same thing happened in Fargo, North Dakota. Exact same thing in Minneapolis. In numerous cities across this country, during the day Black Lives Matter protests have been completely, totally lawful and calm and peaceful, and for whatever reason certain people are being paid to come in and infiltrate Black Lives Matter and burning and looting and causing violence, OK? That is for the optics. Let me help you understand this. Hypnotists work this way, and this is the way the media has absolutely mastered it. A hypnotist will say they want to elicit an emotion out of you, and then they will make a suggestion. And they’ll elicit another emotion and make another suggestion. And they’ll take you further down a road until they have your trust or are calm enough, whatever. The media does the same thing. They elicit an emotion. On my podcast, I said asymmetrical warfare and financial collapse will start to happen in the spring of 2020. Trump had pissed off the Chinese and Russians enough that the spring of 2020 is when all of this goes down. And I’m watching financial metrics. I’m paying attention to all of it. I’m doing interviews with people who give us detailed lists of weapons shipments out of Bulgaria to ISIS. We have those flight manifests. All the way leading up to our investigations where we’ve got 25 bioweapons labs that encircle Eurasia with scientists who have diplomatic immunity, which means they can ship and carry anything they want and you can’t search them. And by the way, all those laboratories have the ability to create and weaponize viruses that attack specific DNA. These aren’t my words. These are Pentagon documents, OK? But anyway, I’m sitting there basically saying this is coming in the spring of 2020. So the first thing I see in the news—and knowing how the media works and how they cause fear or certain emotions, anger, things like that—they start showing Chinese people falling face first on concrete. Then they show Chinese people in Chinese hospital bags convulsing. Then they show body bags. Then they show refrigerator trucks. Then they show a giant bat hanging out of a bowl of soup. Now they’ve scared the s--- out of everybody who is gullible enough to fall for it and then a talking head comes on and said you’ve got to lock down your businesses, wear a mask to save grandma and grandpa. So now everyone is afraid and they lock everything down. Well, Josh, I’m the kind of guy who sees this and goes, “A bat in a bowl of soup. Are they really trying to sell this? A wet market?’ OK. Whatever.” I’m sitting here laughing. You don’t know what comes next after you agree to this. You lockdown your businesses. Remember it started out as 14 days to slow the curve, right Josh?
Gross: People were trying to help the hospital workers.
Miletich: Oh yeah, 14 days to flatten the curve to help hospital workers. It’s a year later, Josh. Do you think the government is going to give back your rights?
Gross: Yeah, I don’t feel like my rights have been taken. It’s a global pandemic.
Miletich: It is not a global pandemic.
Gross: It sure is. How is it not?
Miletich: Josh, Josh, if it was a true pandemic, you’d hear ambulances all day and night.
Gross: I heard a lot in L.A. for a long time. People in New York heard a lot of ambulances, too.
Miletich: Well, that’s to be expected when [New York Gov. Andrew] Cuomo sends all the infected people into old folk’s homes.
Gross: Cuomo isn’t the governor here. A pandemic is a real thing.
Miletich: [California Gov. Gavin] Newsom is no better.
Gross: Aren’t you tired of whataboutism, of arguing that way?
Miletich: Well, here’s the thing. My point is that the American people have been taught to think with their emotions. Literally Josh, I feel we’re one news cycle away from people absolutely losing their f---ing minds. They’re so convinced that they allow the media to go past their objective thinking. They don’t step back and do any research for themselves, and it goes to their lizard brain and it’s true. It’s embedded in their lizard brain. Case in point, every once in a while when I’d teach a seminar, me being a former world champion and a coach of world champions, people would take my word for it when I’m teaching a technique. You would assume everybody who paid to be there trusts that I know what the hell that I’m talking about. Well, every seminar, I would teach one technique that was complete and utter bulls---. And I did it deliberately. I would let the class start to practice it. And I would stop them and ask if anyone questioned what I just taught them. “Anybody in this room?” I’d have one guy raise his hand saying he was kind of wondering, but no one else in the room did, Josh. That’s what happens when people hear words from someone they see as an authority on something. I’m telling you. You have to be able to step back objectively. Do research. The death rate is no higher in 2020 than it was in 2019. OK? They jacked up the PCR tests. Now they turn them down when [Joe] Biden is president. Why is that? Why did they do that? Why did they turn down the sensitivity of the PCR test? I’ll tell you: Because they wanted to jack the numbers up. Right? They needed the numbers to be high. They needed to scare people.
Gross: Do you subscribe to anything from QAnon? A lot of the thought process you’re describing for people presumably on the left or who listen to mainstream media is that they’re buying into a Big Lie, that they don’t know the difference and they’re getting sucked into that. Is there any of that way of thinking on the right? Is there any element among Trump supporters? Anything remotely like that on your end of the political spectrum?
Miletich: Well, I would say this: People who are just as gullible believing in the mainstream media are just as gullible as people believing in Q. That goes for both sides of the aisle. Unfortunately, there are aisles instead of just the American people waking up. QAnon, we, for a long time on my podcast, Jeffery Wilson and I co-host, were flat-out saying it’s a PSYOP. It has to be a PSYOP. Early on, we would debate it and would say, “OK, a few things that Q said actually happened, but for the most part, it’s complete bulls---.” This and that. And then it just, you know, after stepping back and objectively researching this stuff, [we would stop] and go, “It’s nothing more than a PSYOP. That’s all it is.”
Gross: How do you determine if your objective analysis is accurate? How do you know what you know? And how do you believe so thoroughly that it’s true?
Miletich: Well, because I do things like having people with opposing views on my show who are pretty intelligent and will debate with me. I have a scientist on and an immunologist on who will debate [inaudible] on something like vaccine safety. Where nobody has dissenting views on mainstream media. They’re a giant echo chamber, right? So I’ve got to be able to go and say, “You know what? Yes, there might some validity to this. Let’s talk about it.” Back when [President George W.] Bush invaded Iraq, everybody was rah-rah-rah George Bush, go America, right? So I’m having a conversation in my gym with a good friend of mine who has done some shows for A&E, a very bright guy, a producer. But at the time way back then, he’s a sound guy for the UFC film crew filming in the gym. He’s a local who was hired. He and I are talking. [He asked,] “What are you thinking?” I said, “I don’t know why we’re in Iraq. It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense when supposedly [Osama] Bin Laden cooked up all of this in Afghanistan and Pakistan, among other places.” He goes, “You ever hear of Halliburton?” I said I wasn’t familiar and he told me to look up Dick Cheney and Halliburton. I put the pieces together with the oil. So that’s when I go, “OK, yeah, let me research it.” I researched and was like, “For f---’s sake, it’s all true.” So yeah, you get to the point where you understand it almost doesn’t matter who’s in office. They’re not running the show. You get past all the left and right stuff, admit you could be wrong, do some research and find out. The way I kind of relate it, Josh, is in the early UFC days, everyone had their own particular art: a karate man, a wrestler, a kickboxer, a judo guy, whatever. From my observation and watching these guys compete, that’s just pure ego. That’s not wanting to admit you don’t know everything and going in with karate believing you’re going to win this thing and getting the living s--- beat out of you by a world-class kickboxer or getting thrown on your head by a judo guy. Politics. People are so emotionally tied to their politics, so people can’t come up off it because if they did, they would have to admit that they were wrong all along. They’d have to admit it. I’m one that’s big enough to go, “Listen, you prove a point to me, show me documents, show me facts and I’ll admit I’m wrong. One hundred percent, I’ll admit I’m wrong.” But as of yet, not a lot of people are coming on and proving me wrong. We’ve invited numerous experts in numerous fields on our show, and they won’t do it because they know we’ll destroy ’em. Because we have the documentation. We have the facts. We have the proof. So look, I don’t claim to know hardly anything, but I do know one thing: I have talked to a lot of experts from different perspectives and have drawn a conclusion that, with a lot of research myself, that what we’re witnessing has nothing to do with a virus. It never did. We said it on the first day. We did a ton of episodes when this thing kicked off and said it wasn’t about a virus. It’s about the collapse of the monetary system. We saw that coming a mile away. Over a year before, we were talking to guys like Peter Schiff on my show—the guy that called the 2008 collapse and got laughed at on CNN. Obviously, he was correct and the other economists were never to be seen again because they didn’t know what they were talking about. From military experts to intelligence officials, people who were very high up in intelligence, you know, and talking about what was coming. We are absolutely going to be dealing with asymmetrical warfare, economic collapse and a reset of the monetary system. That’s all this is about. If they wouldn’t have come up with this amazing idea to lock everybody down… People can go back and watch Bill Gates’ Event 201. This was absolutely planned. They filmed the whole thing. It’s a mini documentary on Event 201, on coronavirus. They had experts in the media, military, immunologists, all kinds of doctors having meetings and filming all this stuff. It ended, I believe in November 2019, and all of a sudden, boom, we’ve got coronavirus. Anybody can go look that up and watch it and research it. But my point is I did a little research and talked to some experts here and there and was able to go, “The s---’s coming. Asymmetrical warfare is coming. Massive PSYOPs. Financial collapse. Digital currency is what they’re pushing for.” Now you see global bankers talking about creating digital currency. Physical money spreads the virus. It’s all bulls---. It’s all about control.
Gross: You seem to have in your mind a really good roadmap of why we’re here and where we’re going. You’re convinced of this?
Miletich: I don’t have to be convinced because I already know. Look, for those that have never researched Agenda 21. It’s all real documents. They can go read it.
Gross: Can I admit something to you, Pat? There was a time I learned about Agenda 21, and it led me down into all sorts of rabbit holes that I see today are what form the general conspiracy hivemind that exists in this country. I know from my personal experience how it influenced what I thought of the world, how it influenced my personal relationships in the short term and I extricated myself. I learned more as I went along. I don’t see a dark, sinister force at play here. Agenda 21 is a real thing, but it’s interesting how people can be pushed into a certain direction by the information they take in. And it’s a reinforcing loop, as well.
Miletich: Here’s another case in point for you. You can go back to Episode 150 with our interview of Rosa Koire. She’s a very left-leaning lady and made that very clear during the episode. She said, “Listen gentlemen, I lean very far to the left and I’m a lesbian, so let’s make that very clear.” She proceeded to explain that as she was working for [the California Department of Transportation], she noticed all this Agenda 21 stuff being implemented at a local level. That’s the way they do it.
Gross: Let’s just say Agenda 21 is about Sustainable Development.
Miletich: Listen, that’s wordplay. Sustainable Development in translation, in reality, that means government entities and very powerful people taking over all control over food and energy production. And how many people are even allowed to even be outside of the city. All of these things are very real. They are being implemented. There’s a reason that when you put a supposed virus in place and you shut down all meatpacking plants and people have to slaughter hundreds of thousands and millions of cattle and cows and chickens and turkeys, that… look, they knew what they were doing. It’s very systematic in how they did it and why they did it. Luckily, here in our area at least, I was able to save four family farms because they were going to have to slaughter their cows and hogs. I started putting ads on Facebook like crazy for those farms, and they were able to sell them all and send them to the local meat lockers to be processed. They saved their farms. These people told me flat-out they were going to lose their farms. They were going to lose so much money. They were going to go under. If you think that it’s about Sustainable Development, it’s not at all. It’s about taking over food production. It’s about taking complete control of the monetary system with digital currency so they can monitor what you buy. This guy is spending his money on some cigarettes, or here, this guy is spending money on a psychiatrist. He’s crazy. This all leads to somewhere. This is not paranoid thinking. You’re dealing with the Klaus Schwabs of the world and Bill Gates, who everybody seems to think is some angel who has a hundred billion dollars and hasn’t spent a dime on digging a well in Africa or help drought-stricken Africans. He’s spending money on vaccines, experimenting on poor Africans half the time and having been proved to sterilize thousands and thousands of Africans. All they are is guinea pigs to him. But no matter how you feel about Planned Parenthood, Gates’ father funded it, and it had one intention and that was [to] get rid of unwanted babies. And they weren’t white babies, I can tell you.
Continue Reading » A Conversation with Pat Miletich, Part 2